fangirljen | Needed Explanations

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Needed Explanations

With the release of spoiler pics for "200", I once again find myself asking a question I was asking months ago: Sam and Jack, how exactly does it work as a relationship? It's a popular pairing in SG-1 fandom, but it's beyond me as to why it is so loved. I see sexual tension, but it's hardly been confronted, and has never been resolved. So for those of you who ship this pairing, why does it work for you? Also, how deeply are they involved in their relationship? What I'm looking for, really, is a well-researched argument that could convince me to like this pairing. It feels forced to me and Jack seems cold to it. If you can point me in the direction of any articles on the ship, I'd greatly appreciate it.

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I got spoiled for a few things about '200' so I wasn't too scared to read :) I am, frankly, terrified of what this epi might bring, but... :S

I'm with you.

I don't get the Sam and Jack relationship and not because I'm a J/D slasher. Not at all. For all the reasons you say. Jack is cold to it. Jack was much warmer to Janet than he ever was with Sam. Jack, to me, epitomises 'bachelor' and has from day one. As much as I love to read J/D, etc, Jack just comes across to me as one of those guys who works best on his own. He's just not a relationship-y guy. And he's been hurt before, and while I'm not sure whether he's scared of being hurt again or being reminded of Charlie (not very Jack :) ), I don't think he wants a long-time 'thing'. And he certainly doesn't want any more children.

And as for Sam, well, she's been so... I don't wanna say childish... but anyway, she has not been the mature woman of the first 3 seasons, and I don't she would be able to hold down a relationship either, and not just because of her track record, but because she's married to her work. Like Daniel. What they do is too important to them. And to pair Sam off with someone just because she's a woman in her prime who's proverbial biological clock is ticking, is degrading. IMO.

When the shippy music starts? I cringe. There is just absolutely NO sparkage between these two people. When they are with other people? Sparkage. Jack and Janet, Sam and Janet, Jack and Daniel, Sam and Marty, Daniel and Vala, Teal'c and Shau'nauc, hell, Teal'c and Sam. There's chemistry - just something that makes you smile and not cringe. Maybe because Sam/Jack was always forced upon us as viewers, maybe it really is because I'm a slasher at heart, but these two people are not supposed to be together. As much as I love both of them :)

They're too stubborn, too strong and too much individuals who love what they do.

Anyway, that's just my five cents :) I don't understand it, and I'd really rather not have to deal with it at all. I'm very scared re: '200'.

I've never really been a fan of the pairing, and neither of the actors involved seem to have been able to muster any kind of chemistry for a few years now. I don't see either of them having or needing a romantic entanglement at all (with anyone), but neither does the prospect of "forcing" one upon them send me into paroxysms of rage.

As for other viable pairings, Daniel/Vala seems the most blatant, and is hells of cute. I don't see Teal'c and Sam's relationship as romantic or sexual in any way, but I do concur that they seem to share a deeper bond than Sam and Jack ever did. On the topic of other relationships that don't strike me as romantic or sexual in any way- most of the proposed SG-1 pairings would feel forced and dry to me. Atlantis is far more rife for potential romantic subplots, hetero or otherwise.

If you absolutely must write slash fiction, I would suggest McKay/Beckett over Daniel/more-or-less-anybody in a heartbeat. Hell, McKay's friendship and subsequent trust issues with Sheppard are far easier to view as a metaphor for a more intimate relationship than damn near anything else they've done, though both characters' vigorously heterosexual libidos (Sheppard and... mostly ascended women, and Rodney's obsession with Sam... though that one could be something he's blown out of proportion to closet himself more deeply) would limit it to metaphor.

...But Carson is totally gay for Rodney. :-p

...How weird it is to see you say that. I definitely agree, too. (Some people think, based on observations, that Paul is gay for David, too. Not sure about that, but sometimes I wonder. Paul's words at Comic Con were interesting. He was slashing himself and David all over the place.)

As you have likely figured out by now, this is my SG-1 OTP (okay, well, really just one of them at this point, but it was my first). It is a bit presumptive, darling, to ask for a "well-researched argument" from your poor humble flisties, but if you're really eager for an explanation, just head over and spend a few minutes on one of the numerous communities dedicated to the subject, or even present your query there - that's likely the only way you'll really get what you want (or a semblance of it - some of them are crazy). If I can remember the locations of the ones that I've read, I'll most certainly point you to them, though - I know I've stumbled across a few. Actually, you know, I'll perhaps post on some of the coms I'm on and see if I can dig anything up that way. Give me two weeks and a reminder and I'll work my own up, too – but I must get this damned test out of the way, first!

I will have to add, though, as far as "how would it work in a relationship?" - honey, half (if not more!) of the ships out there aren't necessarily realistic! Just look at Harry Potter fandom (Harry/Draco anyone?), or if you want to keep it realistically in the SG-verse, any homosexual pairing (mind you, I'm not saying this is right, but if we're talking canon, well, we're still not at a point yet in television or culture that we're going to have main-character gay military personnel on a show like SG – we couldn't even get one on Star Trek!). That shant keep me from reading those things, however! Personally I believe Sam and Jack could (and I say that in the sense of "might, might not") work in canon, as supported by a number of episodes ("Moebius" and "Threads," anyone? I actually thought it was canon after that, and was mightily saddened to find out shortly thereafter that it was, in fact, not). I don't disagree with you regarding Jack's seeming disinterest, though I think that Jack as a character tends to be much more reserved and hard to read than Sam, a very open character, and that the show laid foundations for his side of a mutual attraction during the whole Za-tarc thing. But that's a 'whole nother can of worms, and I already told myself I wasn't going to write my whole damned explaination now. Heh.

This said, I'm not sure I'm all that much looking forward to what looks to be an odd Sam/Jack wedding in the 200th - at this point, especially post-S8, I don't think that there's much of a "future" for them, at least in canon, or at very least on-camera. I think with Jack out of the picture on the team that Sam, in a sense, has moved on (he's a bit old for her, even I have to admit, and I totally perve on that sort of thing), and I'm not really sure Jack will ever be ready emotionally for a new real relationship. Meh, I think I'll have to see it to decide, and my traitorous shippy heart may overwhelm the more rational part of my brain in the end.

Personally I'm a fan of "ship and let ship," and there are plenty of very beloved ships that I, personally, just don't understand (Jack/Daniel being chief among them, I must admit) but I mainly just move around them (though, for the sake of adventure, I've tried a few, just to, you know, make sure). From my experience this seems to be the case for you also, which I much appreciate! I'm just throwing in a pinch of my opinions on this since I seem to recall this being the second time you've publicly mused.

But all that, my darling, is canon - and who needs to worry about canon when we have such nice beautiful fantasies in which to play - fanfiction!

Actually I had no clue that you shipped Jack and Sam. *L* I'm not expecting a well-researched argument from my flisties, unless one of them happens to have one written up already. :) I mean, it would be nice, but not necessary. I'm mostly looking for where I could find one. Like at

metagate or something.

To be honest, I'm kind of scared of Jack/Sam shippers. Many of the ones I've observed share the rabidness I've seen exhibited in the Ron/Hermione shippers. With my query, I really don't want to deal with that crap. I am looking for serious answers that aren't out to flame me because I don't sail that ship. If you could dig up something, I'd be much obliged. :)

Most ships stem from somewhere, though. They come from some character interaction. I can see how it could be argued that Harry/Draco have sexual tension going on, and that they could get together if they were to ever get over themselves and deal with some key issues of confliction.

When I see Jack/Sam in the eps, I see woodeness, out of character interactions, and the writers forcing something that just isn't there. "Threads" felt off to me. The pairing overshadows storyline elements instead of enhancing the storyline.

Jack is enigmatic, I agree, but I have seen him warmer with other women who have captured his fancy, Sara and Laira to name a few. Jack and Laira are hot together and there is a warmth to him that I don't see in his romantic scenes with Sam. I want to know what it is that I'm missing. How is my perception off to this? (Oh, and related but not directly, why does Jack resign from the military in "Window of Opportunity" when he knows that he's just going to see the cycle run again? Why would he even bother? Why isn't he grabbing Sam and boinking her? Who cares anyways since nobody's going to remember! So don't get that.)

I'm the opposite when it comes to post season 8. I think that opens up their relationship quite a bit. I can even accept them dating now because he's not her direct superior. I can so see them having a distance relationship...like I can see Jack having a distance relationship with Daniel. The long distance brings new opportunities. But before that, what we see on screen, I don't see the chemistry.

I accept any ship as long as nobody tries to push their ship down my throat. That's all that I really care about. *L* It's mutual; I don't push my ship on anyone even as certain as I am about it (like Remus/Sirius). I really don't care if people share my shipping opinions or not.

Ahh, this isn't a question about fanfiction. :) But you are right about what fanfiction can be used for. I'm just trying to understand and maybe get a better appreciation for one of the writers' and fans' favorite ships.

I find it odd that Ron/Hermione people are apparently rabid. This is the most blatant tension in Rowling's books that I can see, and doesn't need rabid fans to work. I mean, it's canon now, but even before it was, it was pretty clearly coming. If that makes some people unhappy... I guess I don't understand them either.

As for Sam/Jack... did you say wedding? Crikey. I don't know if I like that, but I like the show enough that it won't cause me to lose any sleep or post any diatribes anywhere.

Remus/Serius is, I think, mostly metaphorical like Sheppard/McKay, (with lycanthropy being a metaphor for AIDS, Remus being metaphorically gay, and Serius being his best mate, ad nauseam) but since the metaphor is there, this is one of the many speculatory fan-based pairings that I can at least comprehend.

I gotta say, I more or less just don't understand the desire to take someone else's characters and put them into a romantic or sexual circumstance, gay, straight, bi, or whatever. But when people discuss them, I guess I do prefer to hear about pairings that at least remotely make sense.

Oddly, I'm not at all sure that Sam/Jack makes much sense. *shrugs* Oh, well. It's not my show to write. And like I mentioned, I'll still tune in every week happily enough.

...Being as baffled as I am by the whole idea of slash fiction (regardless of sexual orientation or species), I suppose I'm probably not the best person to be commenting here. Shutting up now.

I saw a mention in a FAQ file a few years ago that basically said if you weren't a Ron/Hermione shipper, then you were going to be converted over. No, it doesn't, but many of the fans of it seem to be very, very dedicated to it, obnoxiously so. Many of them typically don't like the idea of a Hermione/Harry ship, which was one I was liking for a while. Now I just don't care about the regular storyline, save for anything that isn't related to Harry and his two friends. I much prefer the Marauders storyline. HBP left me feeling very sad and empty by the time I finished it. :( I'm hoping my second reading is going to be better.

Yep. In "200", Sam and Jack supposedly get married. It was teased during Eureka. I rather like Whisper99's take on it: that it isn't Jack's and Sam's wedding, but Daniel's and Sam's, because Daniel is the one in the tux. I also love how bitter Vala looks. *L* The wedding isn't for real, just a little fun thing for ep "200" in which EVERYTHING happens. Have you seen the "Fargate" pic yet?

But the thing with Remus/Sirius is that they are living together too as well as giving presents together. Now, that could be because they are both lonely, and Remus is poor and has only a few places to go (though, at the end of book four, Dumbledore did tell Sirius to lie low at Remus's place), but these points could also support a slashy coupling. It does work either way.

People have been putting canon characters into pairing with others for ages (don't forget about those individuals who pair themselves, or an elevated version, with canon characters. That's when you are getting into Mary Sue and Marty Stu territory). In many TV shows, romance is teased with, but not realized or portrayed. Many times I think it is because romance is a characterization element, rather than a plot element, so to portray it would take away from telling the story.

Sam/Jack is a pairing which doesn't makes sense to me, either. I can understand flirtation, but I wish it would have been left at that. If it was fully realized, that's great too, but make it -appear- fully realized!

One of my biggest nitpicks with the writing staff of SG-1 is how they seem afraid to deal with crucial issues. They are very fond of the Roadrunner and Coyote effect: things get messed up and then are miraculously fixed at the end of the ep. I was in love ninth season because SG-1 continued screwing up. :) I like that the people in SGA screw up, too, but what I don't like there is that they aren't reviewing their ethics. They do whatever the hell they want without anyone to report to. :( I believe that Elizabeth, Beckett, and John would have all gotten the boot after it was known to anyone on Earth what they did to Michael. Maybe now that they have a civilian oversight committee riding their asses they'll perform better.

This isn't a conversation about slash fic, though. Things sort of deviated there. *L* My main focus is on the workings of Jack/Sam.

Reviewing their ethics? They spent over a year stranded in a strange galxy with virtually no contact with earth, surrounded by a hostile enemy who literally devours life. Yeah, they became a tightly knit group who is able to make hard decisions swiftly. Elizabeth has kept them together (well, except for that one schmuck who hates everybody) through some ridiculously rough shit. *joking here:* You back off my show!!! >:-(

But seriously, I don't think what they did to Michael was supposed to be taken as a standard good guy tactic, and everyone felt bad about it (Ronon because they weren't killing him, but still), but they went ahead because the SG:Atlantis team values the survival of the human race more highly than anything else. I can hardly fault them for that. They did what they thought they had to do for the rest of humanity, despite the fact that the decision cost them self-respect. Conviction is a virtue as well as compassion, just not one that's pleasant to look at sometimes.

(that was me. That should teach me to respond directly from e-mail)

Yes, but now they have been in contact with Earth on a regular basis and they are pulling some shitty acts that would get many of those military officers court marshalled. I'm not questioning Elizabeth's abilities to pull people together through rough shit, but some of her leadership decisions have been terrible.

I am not as up on these things as my friends who are avid SGA viewers are, but I think they have valid and important points. Some more terrible stuff went down in last night's ep, even. I realize you haven't seen it yet, but when you have, you may want to read Jane Davitt's thoughts as well as Hth-the-first's thoughts.

Yeah, spoilers...I knew ya said it - heck I even think I saw the picture but it just didn't click. Wedding?! Sam/Jack wedding? Bawhuh??? That's like out of left field isn't it? But then I thought the original admition of feelings was also out of left field, so what do I know? :)

I realize that the S/J ship is quite popular and if folks wanna ship 'em, go right ahead. Like you I find they have a better chance to do so now than they did when they were both at the SGC - but I still don't think it would happen. Sam's just a little busy right now don'tcha think? In my shippy sort of mind when Sam leaves the SGC she's heading straight to Pete's where they're working on rebuilding thier relationship - but I will never see it on screen nor do I expect or want to. I don't want the ship (any ship) to overwhelm the storyline of the show.

What I don't understand is how this ship is canon now. Ok, season 4 O'Neill admitting caring more than he should. In that scene Sam looked a little pained like she didn't want to hear that from a man she respected so much. At least that's how it looked to me. We never saw Sam's admission. We also saw Jack kiss Sam during the time loops. After that I honestly can't remember much until season 8's Grace when Sam came to terms with her own crush and decided to move on from it. In Threads she got cold feet, yes, but it does not implicitly state that she broke things off with Pete for Jack - especially since Jack was involved with someone during that ep. Mobeius had the AU Jack and Sam hook up but not the original universe duo. So past a mutual crush that was acknowledged and then put aside/moved passed I have never seen where the ship has become canon, unless simply by the crush being acknowledged it is now canon. In that respect I can agree, I just don't see how it continued past then "I like you", "Hey I think I like you too", "That's nice, now back to work" bit that we got in the show.

But then in fandom I don't reckon you need more than that. If I was going strictly by canon then I wouldn't still be shipping Sam and Pete in my head or Daniel and everyone in creation (the man just has chemistry with so many people!)

Oh - and Remus/Sirius? OTP. :)

Isn't it fascinating how people all watch the exact same show and come away with completely different interpretations? Where others see a cold Jack, I see a Jack trying to be very careful about how much affection he reveals because it's the one thing he's really afraid of. Where others see disinterest, I see a pained Jack who wishes things could be different.

I ship Sam/Daniel and Sam/Jack equally, but if you're interested in my reasons for S/J, here's a recent thread in my LJ about that very thing. Just so I don't have to keep re-typing it.

Very gratuitous, but I just hvae to say I love your blog, lots and lots of Kudos :)

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Needed Explanations

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SG:A Ethics

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